How to become a citizen using opportunities and humility

Episode Description

Rafael is originally from Brazil and decided to go to New Zealand for a year to learn English for better opportunities in his country. 

He quit his job and, with some friends, went to New Zealand. 

Rafael left Brazil without a visa and just a bit of money. He soon managed to find a job that would sponsor him so he could make some money and stay longer in the country. Instead of staying for a year, as he planned, Rafael stayed for two, and when he moved back to Brazil, he quickly realized that he missed the New Zealand lifestyle. 

Rafael moved back to New Zealand, this time on a working holiday visa, which allowed him to work and travel around the country. 

Through a friend, Rafael found a job that could sponsor him to get a work visa. So he moved to Christchurch, where a few years earlier have been damaged by a big earthquake. The city had to be rebuilt, and people like Rafael were desperately needed. This opportunity and his humility to adapt to jobs made it “easy” for him to get a work permit and later become a Permanent Resident. Years later, he became a New Zealand citizen.

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Episode Transcript

Rafael 0:01

Many times when I was cleaning toilet seats I have posed like what I'm doing here? Why did I leave my comfortable job to do this, but as long as you've been here, you're growing and you're learning that you should be happy what you have. So it's like liquid love, where if that's your option, embrace it, make it the best.

Daniel 0:22

Hi, everyone, and welcome to episode number 39 of the Emigrant's Life Podcast where we share stories with people from other countries to change their life stories you can find ideas, resources and motivation to the team. This week, he's originally from Brazil, they moved to New Zealand about 10 years ago without a visa and money. Still, despite that, he managed to become a New Zealand citizen. He didn't plan to leave Brazil permanently. He just wanted to learn English to find better opportunities in his country. He quit the good career in Brazil, and when he moved to New Zealand, he worked as a cleaner to pay the bills and stay longer in the country. In the end, his perseverance humility led him to NGO citizenship. Before moving to my conversation with Raphael, make sure to subscribe. Wherever you listen to podcasts, it would be great if you could leave us a review on Apple podcasts. And also, if English is your second language and your problems understanding your accents. You can find the transcript of this episode in the show notes. Just visit And without further ado, please enjoy my conversation Rafael.

Hi Rafael thanks for be on the show.

Rafael 1:07

Hello, Daniel. It's no problem. My pleasure.

Daniel 1:09

Awesome. Thank you for being here. Should we start from saying to the listener were originally from and where do you live now?

Rafael 1:13

Sure. My name is Raphael. I am originally from Brazil, Sao Paulo, at the moment I'm in Auckland, New Zealand. I've been in New Zealand for the last 10 years and a half. And that time in New Zealand, I have moved around initially from Queenstown to Wellington, Wellington to Christchurch. And now I'm based in Auckland.

And let's start from the beginning. What age did you leave your country?

I was 24 when I left Brazil, I recently finished my studies and I decided you

Daniel 1:41

And why did decide to leave Brazil?

Unknown Speaker 1:42

I mentioned I was just about to finish my studies. And I had a good friend, a close friend who went to New Zealand year and a half before myself. And she encouraged me Actually, she was the precursor for my big change. And I thought initially came to New Zealand to stay a year and studying English in Queenstown with a support from her sides. But at the end, as you guys do, you understand and the duration of the podcast she thinks has been changes, but mainly was a friend's dad encouraged me,

Daniel 2:09

And what made you stayed using it for longer?

Rafael 2:10

Well, I believe initially, the curiosity, everything was new, my initial goal of learning English was and that is true or not, I still have a lot to improve on my English. But that time, I couldn't have a proper conversation. So it wasn't a real time to think of going back. And I analyzed all the possibilities of returning to head and I managed to get a work visa in a cleaning company in Queenstown. From their opportunity to start to appear my network was bigger. And I moved to another place that was restaruant in Queens New studio and I was doing a different role. I was an art teacher hands was a tough work, but pretty pleasurable. Then, the life was as long as going on and the quality of life actually I was having with a very small amount of resource, he actually was the main thing to give me where I am right now. So what I'm saying is that it's very possible very reachable to have a good quality of life in a single week of very little money. Because beats around it's pretty easy to reach, process cars or driving around by bus or checking. And that was something that really touched me apart learning on the old culture and getting to know new people traveling. Yes, many. Those are the reasons that kept me here.

Daniel 3:20

Okay, I just want to clarify that Queenstown for people that are not familiar with New Zealand it's situated in the south in the middle of the South Island, and is like a really touristy place, right? Yes, that's right. If people are familiar with Whistler in Canada is pretty much like Whistler with a lot of outdoor activities and a lot of tourism. So for you was like an easy place to find a job there?

Rafael 3:35

Yes, actually, Queensland is huge, I believe is the most recent placing it's very seasonal. So everything's works by ski use wintertime, or water, sports and summertime, there's a beautiful landscape. And as with any shot along the rings as well, yes, there are some sports there. Exactly. And I think 70% of the city works behind the tourism, so hotels, restaurants and activities for sports. So there are various low amounts of local people, but a lot of people come in and going all the time.

Daniel 4:04

And we were talking about this the other day when we're not knowing each other before the interview. Living Brazil wasn't easy for you. You went to New Zealand without a visa and pretty much with no money, like little money.

Rafael 4:11

Yes, I think I am now we can consider myself a very brave and courageous person. Because Looking back, I had a plan come to New Zealand with a money I would get from my previous employer. But things didn't work out properly, which made me to think of is to come to New Zealand without speaking English without money without really knowing the culture. Or and also I didn't have a visa that time. I didn't even know about working holiday visa. So my initial plan was moved to Queenstown and pay for English course at least six months. The idea was to have a good English in six months of studies, and then look for work for more six months and then coming back, I had to return trip. As a Brazilian we have to have a return trip to go to New Zealand, so I should take embrace the challenge and I arrived in Queenstown as a tourist. After two months, I managed to find a sponsor a place where giving me a visa that visa was valid for a year, and things was running pretty good. We're looking back 10 years ago, where a very small number of people were considering to leave their countries. New Zealand wasn't really on the top of the map. And there were a lot of opportunities of work in a different place. I managed to move to another sponsor easily. And then I did the other way around. And then I applied for working holiday visa. So basically, that was my three Zealand. I changed the plans. Yeah,

Daniel 5:27

Because you told me that after two years, you were in New Zealand, you decided to move back to Brazil?

Unknown Speaker 5:30

Yes, actually, after two years was Birgitta in two years, I took a flight to Brazil, I was still working visa, I had my holidays. Or when I went to Brazil, when my friend Brazilian friends, he decided to move to New Zealand as well. And when we came together, I mentioned initially that I had a friend was here before myself. And I know her and based guy prepare to ask another girl for my work back in Brazil, we were friends for a long time. And nowadays, we managed to three of us, unfortunately not for the first three or four years stays up in New Zealand. We are settled here. So I went for Brazil for holidays, as you seen how things would be there. But I came back was I had my returning ticket with my friends. That was when we apply for working holiday visa. And I moved row Queenstown to Wellington, as they want to go for a short time someone in Queenstown moved to Christchurch straight after the big earthquake. So he opened a business painting company, and he needed employers, and he offered myself and my friend that we're going to work with him.

Daniel 6:23

He went back to Brazil, you'll figure out that that wasn't the place you want to be an even better person because you like the lifestyle? Whatever you think I could give you more than what the CEO could give you a lot of time. What was your plan when you decided to move to New Zealand and learn the language?

Rafael 6:34

I finished my studies in Brazil, I was planning to have additional uploads for my CV. So English would be something that would put me ahead from other competitors when looking for a job. So my plan was finishing my studies, came learning English and come back and have my life in Brazil, really enjoy the lifestyle in New Zealand, the easy way of making do things you really touched me. So I never really told that being back, it would be easy. I think on my holidays went to Brazil all the times, I actually feel the cultural difference between Brazil and Zealand. How hard is to deal with is more things on the database, especially bureaucracy and public transport moving around, the excess things are way harder there. And you need much more also to have lifestyle Happy New Zealand, I have to work really hard if I can when they reach the same as I have here. So I have to work really really really hard to have something that's easily achievable enough dealing with any type of work.

Daniel 7:25

I like to ask you what kind of job were you doing in Brazil before you left for the first time to New Zealand?

Unknown Speaker 7:28

My last jobs I was an agents consultant. I was a private agents for hire to Ford center their bank. So I was managing trips so I was responsible to make their life is on the professional side. And previews today's I was working as a marketing assistant in Brazil.

Daniel 7:44

This is what kind of fascinates me about people like moving to other country that you had a pretty good job in Brazil, in any multi agency under you were working as a cleaner, with all respect for people that are cleaners, but it's not the best job in the world is not the job that you want to do for a long period of time. That's what fascinates me that when you move to another country, you're willing to do jobs, that's back in your country, you probably wouldn't never done it. Right?

Rafael 8:01


Daniel 8:01

So why don't you find a job as a cleaner? What was your in your mind? And what was your idea to keep doing that job and going back to Brazil and having a better job?

Unknown Speaker 8:09

You know, now I have a different way of looking for those type of jobs, for sure. I believe any job has their importance, they have their value on the societies without those type of jobs, the life is not ready, how soon you're gonna show me that it's not about it's not your job that makes you but you make it your job is the other way around. From what I grew up in Brazil, Brazil, it's all about the success is really related to the position you carry to the job and the title you have no matter if you get lots or little. But if you have a title, that's what matters. And unfortunately, from my perspective, this is really wrong way of running a society right off the system. I was advised by my friend, that wouldn't be easy moving to New Zealand, I would face this type operational manually type of work. So mentally, I have prepared myself. But many times when I was cleaning toilet seats, I have thoughts like what I'm doing here, why did I leave my corporate job to do this. But as long as you've been here, you were growing, and you were learning that you need to be happy what you have. So it's liquid love, where if that's your option, embrace it, make it the best. And I think that guides me in a good way. I also was working in a nice environment was safe physically, it was very tiring, but mentally was very good for myself and didn't have any aura of thinking of my job after my work hours. That is a very good relief, especially for someone to work with, like strategic way of thinking all the time responsibilities. So this balance is really really good. Instead mind to use your body. And you actually learn with time how to be happy with what I have.

Daniel 9:33

And correct me if I'm wrong when I'm multiplying. And I also did some jobs that weren't super satisfying, or the jobs that I really didn't really like doing it. But doing those jobs. It pushed me to learn new skills or get more clarification on to trying to get better jobs or even doing those kind of jobs. It pushes you in a way that if you like your job, you're in a comfortable situation. Do you have a good salary? Did you're not pushing the same way you're not motivated to do something else?

Rafael 9:52

Yes, I think I am a good reference for your question. I realized that I am someone who really loves to see straight away results. What I'm saying like when I'm blaming the job I'm doing show me the results trigger after i doing it. When I'm painting, I spent a couple hours painting and straightaway I see it's a very short term project completed. And that makes me very satisfied. It's the type of work that works really well with my personality. Also, the meanwhile work using my body parts to develop something, it's something that really I really enjoy to do. And that's it's just at the beginning of a journey, it's a sign where you can figure out things you maybe never had the opportunity to do back at home, because they're seen as a fee, or a low cost type of work, for example, builders, or teach hands, chats, or any type of work that use your hands are nothing we do, at least in Brazil, while you're here, the value given to this type of job are completely different. So if you take wages from a plumber, or from a carpenter, from a builder, from electricians, they are the top of the well paid ones, because this is science to understand how valuable, how risky and how much energy needs to party on this type of work, comparing to someone who just need to use a pen and sign a contract. I'm not saying that a person who needs to sign has no responsibilities. But physically, he's not being exposed to us in other trades. So that's a good way of starting or taking it as a sign for building up orders us. So from a carpenter, you see that you've kind of like crafted things, you can develop your own company on making something that's related to you. And so definitely, there are great connections between those lower positions, too. So I think you'll like

Daniel 11:28

Yeah, totally. And speaking of trades, because you told me that when you woke up after the earthquake, you met this friend in Queensland at all, if you want to Christchurch, because there's a lot of jobs. And that's because there's a big earthquake in 2012, or something like that. It'll be very quick. And pretty much the city needs needed to be rebuilt. And they were looking for a lot of people like builders, painters, electricians, all these kind of trades to rebuild the city. And because of that they needed so much of like these kind of jobs, you were lucky enough to get your permanent residency up another amount of time.

Rafael 11:51

Yes, yeah, that was destiny. Maybe let's put it this way. I believe I managed to met wonderful people my way in New Zealand. And that's what gave me the opportunity to be where I am right now. So this guy, he actually opened, a lot of people actually started their own business after the earthquake, because Christchurch was the second largest city. So it was really well populated city on the South Island. And after the earthquake, they had a lot of people left the place, which needs to be replaced, to rebuild the city from zero. And this guy, he offered an opportunity to work with him, even after I told I never had banked before. So initially, I started as a currency. And pretty fast, I got the idea of painting, there are a lot of opportunities for trades, I had many opportunities to work for different companies, or while I was working holiday visa, because they were really nice. A lot of people left the city, so they need to rebuild the houses for these people come back, that was the main thing. So they weren't possibly worrying priority of making it. And after a short time working as a painter, under my working holiday visa, I applied for working visa with the school, this Brazilian guy, and I got my visa approved when I just scooped her up there for a short time that I was under a short securities as many other trades. And I was able to apply for a residency. So I managed to figure out what I need what papers and was a very fast process, I saved up everything I needed. I sent it to the immigration, they believe it, I believe they saw me as a potential person to stay and contribute to the rebuilding of the city that I'm in also being a citizen. So I've been granted in a very short period of time, maybe three months to get all the periods for my application to be granted as a British citizen. So that was great, great kind of man.

Daniel 13:28

Yeah, I had a similar experience when I moved to New Zealand. And then I started in Auckland, and then somebody you know, told me to actually move to Christchurch because they're looking for people like you and will be really easy for me to find a job. And also the time like you didn't speak much English. But for me, it was easy to find a job even though I wasn't the best candidate because I couldn't speak the language. And if somebody asks you, what are you trying to do? You're not a good applicant for the job. But I get a lot of opportunity just because they're really good people so badly. Even that I got my visa. I think I got my work visa approved in a couple of weeks. It was like a super short time to get a visa because they needed people so bad.

Rafael 13:55

Yes was a time they were actually grabbing you on the streets and begging to work with him. Pretty much. Yeah.

Daniel 14:00

And do you have any regrets about your country?

Rafael 14:02

Well, I think it's tough where everyone lives are on culture, my personality and cut out there was beauty Brazilian culture. So I have families, I have good friends. I had my routine and style of life that's really hard to leave. But apart from losing the growth of my nephew and my niece, I think that was something too hard. But I would have various regrets because I was also on the other side building my own personal life. I try to keep English as much as I can. And technology is pretty good for that. Even better now, right? Because by the time I barely had a smartphone, but I don't think he regrets in. I have my good friends very lucky person. I have my two best friends living in New Zealand Who else could have such a privilege, right? Currently my brother he tries to make sure he didn't adapt. So he went back to Brazil. My mom came to visit me and she love it so yeah, no, I don't have any regrets. I just nice and a few that unfortunately I can't have everything. And because one choice always there is a loss. Now you gain one side you lost something else.

Daniel 14:57

And now you're like a citizen you got using a passport. Yes. That was granted last year. So are you planning to? Do you think like, this is gonna be your home for the rest of your life? Or are you thinking of moving either back to Brazil or try different countries?

Rafael 15:08

I think forever, it's a long time period. I'm a person that don't really make like lifetime plans, I try or work with short term plans. And for now, I was saying resume for a little while I'm about to finish my studies, three years ago, enrolled in a bachelor in business, major information systems. So I have to complete this is my main goal. Now I'm on my last semester about you're done with it. And later on online, we'll see because we are facing on crazy time around the world. Brazil situation is not really good. It's not right time to be there. I will have to wait, the outcomes, things that are out of my control. I know the safest place in the world right now. We don't know what is basically we don't talk about virus managed recently, maybe the last week, we had couple keys. But before that, we are pretty safe. We are very isolated. My life is running the same way. But sure, straight to your question. I think, going over to you for a short time, maybe initially as a vote for New Zealand, maybe I'll give you one year to see if I can adopt myself, I believe this would be a really tough and hard process of re adopting myself. But I'm about to embrace the challenge. And maybe try be close to my parents that's getting older. And that's something a few or spending some more time with them in my nephew. And I will see for now, my plan maybe next year or next semester going to reserve for sort of time, but no, not that. I can't be sure about if you're facing a situation. Yeah, no, totally

Daniel 16:22

right now it's impossible to make any any block length?

Unknown Speaker 16:24

Yes, it is.

Daniel 16:25

And what do you think is the biggest upside about leaving a country about being an immigrant?

Rafael 16:29

Is this think of being a man is this breaking our level, your comfortable zone? Getting to know a new future makes you face a different way of looking for life? Looking to different ways of living looking via immigrants? Is it possible for someone who didn't have a contact with a immigrant neither? So both ways, again, gain, you learn something, and they learn something? I also believe that while I never told about this was the best thing. There's a lot of things that could listen to you. That was really the highlights. It's Yeah, it's the getting to know and having a different perspective of life. It's a good feeling. Maybe something you believe that was right. Or we realize it was wrong, because there was another way of doing it. And you realize you become more independent. You are which means to review. It's just easier to be another person if you're worth right.

Daniel 17:14

Yeah, no, you're totally right. So there's so many people that live in a country even just want to start fresh. Another one. Yes. Some people just realize once they're doing it, that that's a possibility. They never thought about it. I guess it's not easy,

Rafael 17:23

but it's very great feeling when you're able to do

Daniel 17:26

yeah. And do you have any challenges that you are facing in this like 10 years in New Zealand? Because you went to India without a visa without much money? And then you meant to say it was what was the biggest challenge and you think it was, you know, in these 10 years of living in New Zealand,

Rafael 17:35

I think adapting to another culture, it's not easy process. When I talk about cultural think and talk about language, who usually climb news is very different from somebody who is much colder in the South Island, they have snow they had ice I never faced that before. So it was a big challenge. For me issue it is I am Oakland, one of the most the warmest cities in whole New Zealand. So I'm pretty happy to be here right now, at the moment, I know you guys can see what I'm wearing a singular, something impossible to do on the South Island. And I ended up with a person who really believes in the power of this earth. So I'm pretty pretty happy to do this situation. English different from what I told in I believe a lot of people think about us six months, a year of learning English will be enough and I'll be fluent, unfortunately didn't work this way with me and most of the people, maybe you were someone who can put a lot of reports and and get pick up the language pretty easy. What happened with me actually, because the water, keep my back and I need to learn how to swim. So I couldn't speak any English. That makes me to really go for studies. I was self studying it actually you guys, but I never went to Sweden and everyone should just move because I need to work to survive. And all I learned was in the database talking to people. And that feeling of I want you to know what he's talking about. I want you here I want you to understand the better push me to wake up early in the morning or go to bed really late in the night, staying awake before stayed longer and learning new words, learn new phrasal verbs. This is a challenge view, I believe I will face and most immigrants we face as long as we leave also her own mother language. It's a constant process of learning.

Daniel 19:02

And what do you think was the thing that appealed the most to learn the language learning English,

Rafael 19:05

I thought of using all my resources to learn English. I am someone very visual, and I'm not religious person that was going to the church. I also know a very big thing for yourself. But I was going out pretty much every single night to talk to people, the nightclubs, they are very suggestive to talk to you when you are under alcohol. We're having a couple of drinks. I also try to explore as much as I could. I explored the libraries on the CDs, I was leaving relationship I have partners. And I'm not saying for you guys to get here and start a relationship. But if it happens, generally, that will be a very good edge because my partner has helped me a lot. I think TMC you're able to learn a lot of things, but learning any language definitely is going back as a child. And don't be orange to make mistakes revisited. You see, I should say words, but you don't need to be shy to repeat and make mistakes. But that's the way how we learn how to walk right we need to fail all the time. We need She hurt herself. And the only way to start walking by needs, it's that at least that's the way home works for me was a hard time. And with the hard times laid off the hard times, we can take the pleasure of it.

Daniel 20:10

Yeah. And how long do you think it took you to be fluent in English and be able to defend opposition?

Rafael 20:14

Well, depending on what we're talking about, I'm sure like losing around not sure what to be talking about, perhaps would be something very specific, like, Oh, I told you, you guys have been a child. That's what I asked you. I'm a big child. So it's you. I don't have any shoe to be full or made mistakes, which really, really helped me. I was consistently asking for the same person, the same thing like five times, most of the people will be shy to ask for a second time. I was like, No, no, she didn't understand. Can you say again, this word? I'll say this again? desert. So I believe for around six months, I was able to slowly talking to somewhere like how can I have their way of talking about but having a good conversation? Understanding maybe a year and a half year and a half was a time that was able to to stand up and say no, that's right. That's not or I guess, around death on the show before?

Daniel 20:58

No, even then, the worst thing that can happen if you make a mistake, you make the other person laugh. So that's right. That's the only way to learn is making mistakes. Actually, I enjoy when people make fun of me for whatever, something stupid Did I say all the way I say on the pronunciation or whatever, just because it forces me to think twice the next time I say the same word. Because I know what people make fun of me. Even my bosses sometimes make fun of me like not in a bad way just to make fun of me, because it's the way I say certain things. They're funny, and they maybe mean something else. So now I'm aware of that. So when I say the same thing, again, I have to think twice, I have to be like focusing on the pronunciation how I think I see the thing, because otherwise, I know they're gonna make fun of me.

Rafael 21:27

Yes, I know for sure. But it works really well with Microsoft is a different side of learning. I try to use it sometimes to get incomes from it.

Daniel 21:35

And do you feel like it'd be an immigrant I do.

Rafael 21:37

I just feel I feel more than lucky. I feel privileged, I'm very privileged to be here. Also, to have the opportunity of leaving my country, a lot of people would love to have the same experience as I had. And I'm sure having a supportive person who knows you. And that makes a difference in my life, having a good friend, and I'll have my best friend as well. It's pretty much more than lucky, maybe I had to live your life in a way of finding being in the right place, talk to the right person to find the job or help someone to help me applying for a visa, feeling forms. Overall, I'm very conscious of our relation of being immigrants. And all the achievements or the goals I have. So far from where I was to where I am, I'm pretty happy, I'm very, very happy to to all I was able to be with everyone that passed on my way in helping as well. So I'm here to what goes around comes around. So if someone helped me and have to have someone, so anyone that lives in us in needing help in a season, It would be my pleasure to assist as much as they can. So yeah,

Daniel 22:32

that's awesome. Thank you for doing that. That's okay. And knowing what you know, now, is there anything that you would have done differently?

Rafael 22:37

Yes, I think if I knew how the value of those three jobs or before, I would, instead of doing a bachelor in Brazil, marketing, that was my degree, I would do something technical, for example, would be a carpenter, I would be a hairdresser, I would be anything that this level of proficiency. I'm not saying you cannot be a psychologist here. But on my own experience, without speaking English, without just recently graduated without any experience on my fields, I definitely would came with a different qualification journalism also would take more risk. I am someone who learns took a long time. But sometimes we need to take big risks. And these reasons may become because to another, another stage of life, I would have started my studies earlier. And if there is a place where you can take a risk. If nothing goes right, with your next choice, you always can go back to your previous job position, because the minimum wages enable you to have a life as an immigrant, we are pretty tough, we work hard, we have a great road, we have to walk in the woods, I'm talking in general, right. So that would be something that I would have done and also have exposed myself while I'm in Brazil, more English force, even it's a tiring process, I was putting myself in more exposed to listening English or reading English or things just to get used to through your brain in the environments that will be soon in place. Yeah,

Daniel 23:57

I kinda want to add something about you said about jobs and going to different career, because I realized that I'm electrician, by trade and be an electrician, I think these countries makes your life so much easier, because you can do the job anywhere you want in the world. Because everywhere you go, they still need electricians. I even spoke to somebody else, who is from a previous episodes, she went to like a culinary school to become a chef, just because it was so much easier. Because everywhere you go people needs to eat. So it's easy to find a job wherever you go as a chef. And these constraints are so much easier to start over in another country. Even though maybe you are qualified to position your country and you move to another one, you're not qualified anymore. But you're still able to find a job and then build your career from that point. forth from your example. You said your ecologist will be so much harder to find a job position in your country because the less demand of technologies then electricians, there are less jobs to apply for it. Yes. So I agree with you if you are in the process of starting a career or thinking about it, adding these great jobs makes your life so much easier to find a job and find a sponsor and be able to get what parents are now in a new country.

Rafael 24:44

Yeah, that's another point. I'm talking overall. So I'm talking the facility of finding your facility of applying for work visa and also go straight in New Zealand they are shortly skills so they are jobs that no one are capable to do it here. It will give you the possibility to even apply for real So if you go through the immigration website, using the immigration website, we will see a list of traits. Of course, there are psychologists, but I believe the regulation for being a psychologist in Brazil and being New Zealand is huge. And there's a way long process and require much more criterias than actually being afraid. So yeah, maybe that would be my advice.

Daniel 25:18

Yeah, I totally agree with you. And do you have any any particular advice you would like to give to the listeners,

Rafael 25:21

no matter where you're planning to go, either New Zealand, Canada or whatever for you, you're trying to learn how things works culturally how works almost place, so you don't have a shock and you can easily and better adopted treat? I'm talking about different perspectives of society, religious, political, different behavioral, they can know how people eat, do they use hands, do they use fork knife, that will definitely make easier your integration where you're going, because you have adapted to a new manual system, now the system needs to adapt yourself. And I'm saying that more for the perspective of a lot of immigrants I can see these you behave are they one or the other comes from the country. And sometimes our behaviors that's not really well seen here, for example, has been a really loud car with a music late in the night. You know, that's not the way how the society works here. So don't bring it I'm just using a very random example for you. But maybe having a good precision talking to people and different types of speakers not only go for the same folks, as you've adopted a different type of people, old young woman, men so you have a different perspective. And from that you can build your own idea of how it will be and how things works.

Daniel 26:24

That's a really good point. I mean, if you are more integrated the culture of the more welcoming to people will be with you because you are shows that you are wanting to be part of the quarter and your respective roles. Because it might be like I said, example if you go to somebody else's place for dinner or something like that, if they're in the house, the whole system was when you get in if you don't remove the shoes, the host won't be won't be pleased. So you kind of need to adapt to be be well seen a well received in a new environment.

Rafael 26:44

Yes, access code, right? Yeah. Besides the system and codes, we need your folder two things goes well and in place.

Daniel 26:51

Yeah, totally. Awesome. Thanks so much for taking the time to tell your story. And now if people and let me just nobody wants to reach out to you what's the best place to find you?

Rafael 26:57

Well, thank you. For everybody listening to me. I'm very easy to be wishes. You guys can find me on Facebook on Instagram. I don't know if you're gonna put in the description of it but you are more than welcome for your main social medias and they may even pay some money some people or whatever. Thank you

Daniel 27:13

so much and definitely everything all the links and everything as usual will be in the show notes at Amiens slash Episode 39. And thank you so much Raphael for doing this. I really really enjoyed it.

Rafael 27:21

Thank you then you have to think for everybody. And I see you guys here.

Daniel 27:24

Yeah, maybe it's you're getting on a future episode. Who knows?

Rafael 27:27

They might not. Yeah, thank you. Bye bye. Bye.

Daniel 27:29

Thank you so much for tuning in this week. You can find the show notes with everything we talked about in this episode includes slash Episode 39 if you want to spoil the show, you can share this episode with a friend equally was a review on Apple podcasts. And if you want to be my next guest in the show and share your story, just visit Amiens slash your story. Thanks again for listening. Talk to you the next one. Ciao